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	<title>Comments on: California&#8217;s Prop 8, Mormons, Twitter, and the wisdom of crowds</title>
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		<title>By: Mattso</title>
		<link>http://nerdacumen.com/californias-prop-8-mormons-twitter-and-the-wisdom-of-crowds/2008/11/11/comment-page-1/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nerdacumen.com/?p=126#comment-146</guid>
		<description>Rylan, thanks for your comment!  With the California Supreme Court upholding the passage of Prop 8, I am sure the debate will go on for years to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rylan, thanks for your comment!  With the California Supreme Court upholding the passage of Prop 8, I am sure the debate will go on for years to come.</p>
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		<title>By: Rylan</title>
		<link>http://nerdacumen.com/californias-prop-8-mormons-twitter-and-the-wisdom-of-crowds/2008/11/11/comment-page-1/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Rylan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nerdacumen.com/?p=126#comment-120</guid>
		<description>Just stumbled upon this looking for LDS people on Twitter, and I couldn&#039;t agree more.  Though I was raised in the church (in beautiful Hawaii~), I don&#039;t necessarily agree with everything I&#039;m told.  I was completely against the passage of Prop8, but I can hardly blame anyone from professing their faith!
I&#039;ve heard stories of temple-goers being harassed by protesters, and I was sorely disappointed by this.  Understandably, this issue has brought a great deal of emotion to the table, but should it be a reason to harass someone for their beliefs?  Truly, there must be other ways to voice one&#039;s opinion without attacking the opposing viewpoint.
Although I heartily disagree with your views, I also apologize for my more emotional fellows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just stumbled upon this looking for LDS people on Twitter, and I couldn&#8217;t agree more.  Though I was raised in the church (in beautiful Hawaii~), I don&#8217;t necessarily agree with everything I&#8217;m told.  I was completely against the passage of Prop8, but I can hardly blame anyone from professing their faith!<br />
I&#8217;ve heard stories of temple-goers being harassed by protesters, and I was sorely disappointed by this.  Understandably, this issue has brought a great deal of emotion to the table, but should it be a reason to harass someone for their beliefs?  Truly, there must be other ways to voice one&#8217;s opinion without attacking the opposing viewpoint.<br />
Although I heartily disagree with your views, I also apologize for my more emotional fellows.</p>
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		<title>By: christianna</title>
		<link>http://nerdacumen.com/californias-prop-8-mormons-twitter-and-the-wisdom-of-crowds/2008/11/11/comment-page-1/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>christianna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nerdacumen.com/?p=126#comment-51</guid>
		<description>good job, charlie brown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good job, charlie brown.</p>
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		<title>By: Mattso</title>
		<link>http://nerdacumen.com/californias-prop-8-mormons-twitter-and-the-wisdom-of-crowds/2008/11/11/comment-page-1/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nerdacumen.com/?p=126#comment-50</guid>
		<description>Alright, I found a link at the Salt Lake Tribune that notes the Church&#039;s in kind donation and replaced the link you&#039;ve been questioning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alright, I found a link at the Salt Lake Tribune that notes the Church&#8217;s in kind donation and replaced the link you&#8217;ve been questioning.</p>
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		<title>By: christianna</title>
		<link>http://nerdacumen.com/californias-prop-8-mormons-twitter-and-the-wisdom-of-crowds/2008/11/11/comment-page-1/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>christianna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nerdacumen.com/?p=126#comment-48</guid>
		<description>(my response is in no way as well-said as yours, but here you go.) 

i don&#039;t disagree with anything you have said.  

granted, the data is publicly available.  but may not be as easily accessible as it is when linked to a blog post supporting one side of the prop 8 argument.  when presented in such a context, those who differ in opinion from the one you have presented may feel motivated to use that data unwisely.  (i am stating a possibility here, not a fact nor even a probable outcome.)

it took me about 2 minutes to find exact addresses and phone numbers for several of the large donations in this list.  it&#039;s not that difficult to track these donors down.  and for a contingent that has recently proved to be disrepectful to its opposition, to say the least, i wouldn&#039;t put it past them to make use of the information that is so readily available.  
(read this: http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/479857.aspx)

additionally, you might be interested to note that property damage caused to the home/personalty of a &quot;yes on 8&quot; supporter has been considered just that, property damage.  however, property damage caused to the home/personalty of a &quot;no on 8&quot; supporter is a hate crime.

no, i am not aware of any unreported incidents.

oh, and i&#039;d like to just clarify one thing: my comment was not out of concern for mormons being &quot;outted&quot;.  we do stand as witnesses at all times.  my concern and original comment was simply concerning the exposure to all the donors listed, regardless of relation to the Church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(my response is in no way as well-said as yours, but here you go.) </p>
<p>i don&#8217;t disagree with anything you have said.  </p>
<p>granted, the data is publicly available.  but may not be as easily accessible as it is when linked to a blog post supporting one side of the prop 8 argument.  when presented in such a context, those who differ in opinion from the one you have presented may feel motivated to use that data unwisely.  (i am stating a possibility here, not a fact nor even a probable outcome.)</p>
<p>it took me about 2 minutes to find exact addresses and phone numbers for several of the large donations in this list.  it&#8217;s not that difficult to track these donors down.  and for a contingent that has recently proved to be disrepectful to its opposition, to say the least, i wouldn&#8217;t put it past them to make use of the information that is so readily available.<br />
(read this: <a href="http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/479857.aspx)" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/479857.aspx)</a></p>
<p>additionally, you might be interested to note that property damage caused to the home/personalty of a &#8220;yes on 8&#8243; supporter has been considered just that, property damage.  however, property damage caused to the home/personalty of a &#8220;no on 8&#8243; supporter is a hate crime.</p>
<p>no, i am not aware of any unreported incidents.</p>
<p>oh, and i&#8217;d like to just clarify one thing: my comment was not out of concern for mormons being &#8220;outted&#8221;.  we do stand as witnesses at all times.  my concern and original comment was simply concerning the exposure to all the donors listed, regardless of relation to the Church.</p>
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		<title>By: Mattso</title>
		<link>http://nerdacumen.com/californias-prop-8-mormons-twitter-and-the-wisdom-of-crowds/2008/11/11/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nerdacumen.com/?p=126#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Christianna, I love your comment because it actually helps me further illustrate my point about having and utilizing accurate information, a responsibility of both parties to any intelligent debate.  

The burden of proof is on me to support statements with as many sources as possible.  Because I first came across the data at that link, that&#039;s the one I used.  If I can find, or you can point me to, another source, I&#039;ll gladly replace it.  Nevertheless, it&#039;s a contrast to the hearsay and conjecture being shared at places like Twitter and Fark, information which is rarely backed up with data.  Just trying to keep the debate as level-headed as possible. 

The data that I linked to comes from a publicly available Google Docs spreadsheet uploaded and maintained by http://mormonsfor8.com/, a blog explaining the aforementioned spreadsheet (and a blog kept by obvious detractors of the church, although I am utterly puzzled at what posting the info they have shared actually accomplishes in that regard).  They point out, as I tried to do, that all of that data is made publicly available by the California Secretary of State.  In fact, full names are made available by the Secretary&#039;s office, too.  This blog has made some effort to conceal last names of folks they believe to be Mormon.  In any case, any monetary contributions made to a campaign in CA are required by law to be reported to the state, which are subsequently made available to the people at large.  This is all a part of transparency in government, as you certainly understand.  You can make a phone call and get the same records.

What the mormonsfor8 blog has sought to do one further than the state, which might be objectionable and is most certainly questionable (and very comical to me (for reasons I shall explain)) is to try to find out and identify who among those &#039;Yes&#039; contributors is an adherent to the LDS faith.  Here&#039;s why I think that is so comical and absurd!  How are you supposed to certifiably verify that sort of data based on third-party claims?  Anyone can assert anyone else is or isn&#039;t Mormon on that list.  How do they get confirmation of that in every instance?  There will be some instances, no doubt, but there is no way of getting it all accurate.  There are names on that list that I know to be Mormon but are not identified as such, and I would go further to postulate that they have misidentified some people as LDS when they are not.  It&#039;s weak.

Furthermore, we Latter-day Saints are invited to be &quot;witnesses of God at all times and in all places we may be in&quot;.  Even if that invites some sort of personal safety risk (and you need to substantiate that claim, and when you do, you&#039;ll have actual threats which can then be reported to the police), I would think that &#039;outing&#039; oneself as a Mormon would only help to further the work of the Lord in bearing that witness of Him in all places and at all times.  Some Latter-day Saints, whether identified as such or not, have appeared in campaign videos, have made phone calls, have campaigned in public spaces, etc.  Besides, while I don&#039;t condone it, any act of violence committed by an opponent of prop 8 against someone for being LDS will only make the opposition look bad in the court of public opinion, too.  If I know someone&#039;s name and city of residence, I still have to do some more research to actually find that person, anyway.  The Savior pointed out that the world hates the disciples of Christ, but that hatred is no reason to cower in fear and withhold our voices.

Nevertheless, thanks for your comment.  If you do know of any threats made to any individuals or groups, you should report those to the authorities, and publish them widely on-line.  Let the potential &quot;wisdom&quot; of our crowd do the same good work they did to pass prop 8 (speaking as a supporter) to prevent criminal acts from taking place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christianna, I love your comment because it actually helps me further illustrate my point about having and utilizing accurate information, a responsibility of both parties to any intelligent debate.  </p>
<p>The burden of proof is on me to support statements with as many sources as possible.  Because I first came across the data at that link, that&#8217;s the one I used.  If I can find, or you can point me to, another source, I&#8217;ll gladly replace it.  Nevertheless, it&#8217;s a contrast to the hearsay and conjecture being shared at places like Twitter and Fark, information which is rarely backed up with data.  Just trying to keep the debate as level-headed as possible. </p>
<p>The data that I linked to comes from a publicly available Google Docs spreadsheet uploaded and maintained by <a href="http://mormonsfor8.com/" rel="nofollow">http://mormonsfor8.com/</a>, a blog explaining the aforementioned spreadsheet (and a blog kept by obvious detractors of the church, although I am utterly puzzled at what posting the info they have shared actually accomplishes in that regard).  They point out, as I tried to do, that all of that data is made publicly available by the California Secretary of State.  In fact, full names are made available by the Secretary&#8217;s office, too.  This blog has made some effort to conceal last names of folks they believe to be Mormon.  In any case, any monetary contributions made to a campaign in CA are required by law to be reported to the state, which are subsequently made available to the people at large.  This is all a part of transparency in government, as you certainly understand.  You can make a phone call and get the same records.</p>
<p>What the mormonsfor8 blog has sought to do one further than the state, which might be objectionable and is most certainly questionable (and very comical to me (for reasons I shall explain)) is to try to find out and identify who among those &#8216;Yes&#8217; contributors is an adherent to the LDS faith.  Here&#8217;s why I think that is so comical and absurd!  How are you supposed to certifiably verify that sort of data based on third-party claims?  Anyone can assert anyone else is or isn&#8217;t Mormon on that list.  How do they get confirmation of that in every instance?  There will be some instances, no doubt, but there is no way of getting it all accurate.  There are names on that list that I know to be Mormon but are not identified as such, and I would go further to postulate that they have misidentified some people as LDS when they are not.  It&#8217;s weak.</p>
<p>Furthermore, we Latter-day Saints are invited to be &#8220;witnesses of God at all times and in all places we may be in&#8221;.  Even if that invites some sort of personal safety risk (and you need to substantiate that claim, and when you do, you&#8217;ll have actual threats which can then be reported to the police), I would think that &#8216;outing&#8217; oneself as a Mormon would only help to further the work of the Lord in bearing that witness of Him in all places and at all times.  Some Latter-day Saints, whether identified as such or not, have appeared in campaign videos, have made phone calls, have campaigned in public spaces, etc.  Besides, while I don&#8217;t condone it, any act of violence committed by an opponent of prop 8 against someone for being LDS will only make the opposition look bad in the court of public opinion, too.  If I know someone&#8217;s name and city of residence, I still have to do some more research to actually find that person, anyway.  The Savior pointed out that the world hates the disciples of Christ, but that hatred is no reason to cower in fear and withhold our voices.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, thanks for your comment.  If you do know of any threats made to any individuals or groups, you should report those to the authorities, and publish them widely on-line.  Let the potential &#8220;wisdom&#8221; of our crowd do the same good work they did to pass prop 8 (speaking as a supporter) to prevent criminal acts from taking place.</p>
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		<title>By: christianna</title>
		<link>http://nerdacumen.com/californias-prop-8-mormons-twitter-and-the-wisdom-of-crowds/2008/11/11/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>christianna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nerdacumen.com/?p=126#comment-46</guid>
		<description>for personal safety reasons, you may not want to include a link to a listing of contributors and their city/state of residence in this.  some last names have been removed, but not many, and there is information in here that can put these people at risk.
:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>for personal safety reasons, you may not want to include a link to a listing of contributors and their city/state of residence in this.  some last names have been removed, but not many, and there is information in here that can put these people at risk.<br />
 <img src='http://nerdacumen.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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